In the year since Illinois got rid of cash bail, St. Clair County’s chief judge says the new system is working — and it’s making the Metro East county safer.
“Those who perhaps were dangerous had the ability to bond out — if they had enough money — and many of those people did,” said Judge Andrew Gleeson, chief judge of Illinois’ 20th Circuit based at the Belleville courthouse. “They actually got to be on the streets, making our community less safe.”
The change, which took place Sept. 18, 2023, was a monumental shift in Illinois’ criminal justice system, the judge said.
In the past year, if the state or county want to keep someone in jail, prosecutors have to convince a judge that the accused should remain detained at a pretrial hearing. In turn, public defenders and state’s attorneys have picked up extra workloads, arguing the case about release within the first 48 hours of an arrest.
Gleeson spoke with St. Louis Public Radio Metro East reporter Will Bauer. The following conversation has been edited for length and clarity.
Will Bauer: You’re one year into no cash bail in the state of Illinois. When you look back on that year, and you reflect, what comes to mind?
Andrew Gleeson: We had a monumental transition to make. Effectively, the legislation changed the processes for the criminal justice system as I've known it throughout my whole career, which is almost 40 years now. And it meant that every aspect of that process was affected. My judges were involved. The state's attorney, the public defenders, the circuit clerks, the sheriff, the Public Building Commission here in St Clair County — and it was a monumental task. And as I look back on it now, I'm proud to say that all of those people, cooperating and collaborating, have made that transition effectively work.
Bauer: One of the biggest logistical hurdles that eliminating cash bail put on the criminal justice system that one could argue is the extra workload that the local state’s attorneys and the local public defenders have. From your vantage point, how have they adapted over this one year in the new system?
Gleeson: I have to praise the public defender's office and Cathy MacElroy, the chief public defender, and the state's attorneys — but particularly the public defender's office. They already had a significant caseload, and this was additional work. They have stepped up to the plate. They have been ingenious in some ways in rearranging their day-to-day dockets so that they have the ability to operate in this realm efficiently. So, with that said, we still need resources as we go through this process, and we realize the needs. We need to make sure that we are publicly stating that. My public defenders definitely need more resources — more people — and we're working on that.
Bauer: Is that a conversation you’re having with the county board to get more resources?
Gleeson: I’m having that conversation with every level of government that has some involvement in the funding, in the allocation of resources in the state of Illinois — and one of those would be the St. Clair County Board.
Bauer: Maybe one of the most common things that you might have heard from critics — I heard it quite a bit — was that the elimination of cash bail could make the state less safe. And the simple theory behind that is because people accused of less egregious crimes no longer have to stay in jail under this new system. Do you think Illinois has gotten less safe in this one year since?
Gleeson: The idea that we are assessing that level of danger to the community at large and or to any individual person before we allow someone to be out on bail is, I think, the counterargument. We're safer under this present system. And then, probably just as important, is now we are upholding our obligations to the Constitution of the United States and the rights of us as individual citizens in this country. We are deemed to be innocent until proven guilty. Bond is only set to make sure that you appear in court. So, when we talk about these things, we're talking about somebody who has not been adjudicated guilty in a court of law yet. So, the assessment of how dangerous they are to us — and whether they're going to reappear for court — is what we should have probably been doing all along.
Bauer: As we go forward, what lessons, if any, are we learning in a world without cash bail, and what changes or improvements need to be made here in St. Clair County?
Gleeson: The first one we already talked about, and that was the concern about having dangerous people on the street and the community being less safe. That would have been one thing that, obviously, it's a giant concern to both the courts and to the community at large. The second is: Are people going to show up to court? So, the purpose of bond is to ensure that they show up for their court dates. And I think everyone who's been involved in the system as long as I have was leery of the thought that we're going to let people go with really — to a degree — with no catch to bring them back in. And, surprisingly, the academics were correct. There is no meaningful difference at this point that we can discern as to whether you post bond, or you don't, as to whether you're going to show up in court. And, actually in some ways, the recidivism is down as opposed to up. I don't know that any of those things are statistically valid yet. I don't know that we have a big enough data set to make that [claim], but those are our initial observations. I am periodically making those inquiries because I think it's important for me to be able to have that understanding and ability to give feedback to the administrative offices and to my colleagues.
